Происхождение нефти газа: от теории происхождения к технологиям поисков > Экзотические теории происхождения, нетрадиционные методы и технологии поисков и разведки нефти и газа
Эфиродинамическая гипотеза происхождения нефти Ацюковского
Suresh Bansal (India):
Dear Zeenat Haidar Galimovich, thanks for quick reply . According to me this is the main flaw in biogenic theory . They have just assumed it as biogenic in origin because of association with ancient biomass .otherwise nothing scientific for the biogenic origin of it . there was very long discussion at borad of AAPG and i raised the same point . they just provided me association with ancient bio mass in sedimentary rocks otherwise nothing scientific . we have observed keogen like material at other terrestrial bodies also supposed to me formed without any involvement of bio mass .
Wikipedia of kerogen includes ;
===Extra-terrestrial===
* [[Carbonaceous chondrite]] [[meteorite]]s contain kerogen-like components.<ref>Nakamura, T. (2005) "Post-hydration thermal metamorphism of carbonaceous chondrites", ''Journal of Mineralogical and Petrological Sciences'', volume 100, page 268,[http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jmps/100/6/260/_pdf] (PDF) Retrieved 1 September 2007</ref> Such material is thought to have formed the [[terrestrial planet]]s.
1) * Kerogen materials have been detected in [[Interstellar medium|interstellar clouds and dust]] around [[star]]s.<ref>Papoular, R. (2001) "The use of kerogen data in understanding the properties and evolution of interstellar carbonaceous dust", ''Astronomy and Astrophysics'', volume 378, pages 597-607, [http://cds.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/aa/pdf/2001/41/aah2968.pdf] (PDF) Retrieved 1 September 2007</ref>
2) = Extraterrestrial oil shale ==
Some comets contain "massive amounts of an organic material almost identical to high grade oil shale," the equivalent of cubic kilometers of such mixed with other material;<ref name = IdahoNationalLab>Dr. A. Zuppero, U.S. Department of Energy, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory. [http://www.neofuel.com/zuppero-1995-water-ice-nearly-everywhere-114647.pdf Discovery Of Water Ice Nearly Everywhere In The Solar System]</ref> for instance, corresponding hydrocarbons were detected in a probe fly-by through the tail of Comet Halley during 1986.<ref name="Huebner1990">{{cite book
| author=Huebner, Walter F.(Ed)
| year=1990
| title=Physics and Chemistry of Comets
| publisher=Springer-Verlag
|isbn=3-642-74805-8
}}</ref>
According to me even keogen is not a biogenic in origin but mixture of abiotic hydrocarbon bearing sludge ( once huge present on the surface of the earth) and ancient bio mass .
HARD NEED TO OBSERVE THE KEROGEN WITH NEW MINDS . BECAUSE ACCORDING TO FOSSIL FUEL THEORY THIS A MAIN PRECURSOR OF GLOBAL HCs .if we want to win the game .
Зинатов Хайдар Галимович:
Dear Dear Suresh Bansal You informed me more in the formation of substances in the near and far Space! In many ways I agree with You. Simply present my opinion, I cited the third part in the Forum. It's big. And possibly A. I. Timurziev would scold me. But: "Mr. Ahmet Isakovic! Dear colleagues!!!
A little "hold their Horses": "sho...,.. Horses I papalia...Yes, and finicky...", "somewhere dance,.. and... to the beat...".
'm a bit "worried" two Problem: 1. Common to all sane, " is there a God?". Very interesting!!! Resolution it just. As my great-uncle – Ferritin-Aby party Civil War: "Not bosporous. The Sky is the office of works. The agenda will send. And don't scratch the head. If He is, then he is clearly not up to us." And talk about?! And to ask?! It is unlikely that he, during his employment...and find time to communicate with me.
And as said Academician Migdal (dear me, son of Peter Kapitza): "Yes! Yes! You are right! But! We now not about it."
2 th "Poser" was: how so? Organics "over-indulging" carbon in some "Wonderful Moment" suddenly began to rise... and still generates deposits Giants! Of oil and gas. How so? She "ate" and suddenly, an incredibly generous? And M. B., it is not so much "ate", that would still nourish uglevodosoderjati oil and gas hydrocarbons, i.e. replenishment of hydrocarbons existing fields? And the question is: how is this almost fossilization "organics" and ornate, that ..and she just ate – ate,...? This is what ought to it, "vile"... and apply on?.
I understand that "organice" or "organists" love "elementary" mathematical statistics. I respect her too. But, as a "Tool" that allows you to exit "Poses Buridan's Ass" when you don't know "what is due". And no more!!!! But I hope that they, too, share that s. Bernard Shaw: "There Are Lies. There is a blatant lie! And then there are statistics!!!".
So "the Lord" organists! Be logical! I.e. in the understanding of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel to be logical in Poonanie is to think and live according to the laws of Dialectics! Here neither of the third and even the second ...and not given! As not "suffering" the materialist Dialectics of Hegel...., and anything with her ...and ...sdelete ...and failed! Karl Marx applied it to the knowledge of the development of Society ("surplus value" and other sensible things) ...And succeeded: napisami Capital (and ...Truncated! Even the damned imperialists ' His ' respect. V. I. Lenin "thrown out" from Hegel "the God". Yeah, probably, "gave over"). .....And Truncated!..... . Full – pro-Z!!!
Answer me, "the Lord" organists "domestic issue", which I "tortured", more than the First, because the answer to "First" when face-to-face meeting I truncated ... and explain. And wooot us and you the question: "Where organics were filled with hydrocarbons?!!! What is that? "Act Of God". So he wanted? And He was, is the saturation of hydrocarbons in organic - satisfied, as that Day (remember, this was Saturday, the Sabbath, or on Central Russian Sabbath Is a Sin to work! So, honor the Sabbath. Not a Sunday). And where did that come from?! Hydrocarbons from the depths of the earth and the oil and gas? Or from organic matter, Koya ate unknown? But! Oil and gas ..and made?!
Only don't, "gentlemen organici" I explain that oil and gas came from organisms, from eating to "the dump" hydrocarbons. And to the question: "where is he (organics) (hydrocarbons) ...and vamsi?". Reply: "Yes where?!! And where!!! Yes from "the Cupboard" !!!!"
"Gentlemen organici". You can cheat two people, a dozen, a hundred, M. B., thousand. But of all people...and not cheat...Nuuu! At least keep one of the simplest Laws of Dialectics. The law: "causality"... Or are you a Marxist-Leninist Dialectics ...and not studied? I believe that "candidate minimum" on the subject you all(!) passed ...and "excellent"!
Ahmet Isakovic and colleagues! In connection with the newly raspadayuschimisya "neccesary the debate" about deep or organogenic origin of hydrocarbon deposits I had to "go back in time". Such returns...and does not happen. But! At the Time, due to "mysterious" for me "riot" deposits of lignite in the Western segment of the orogenic region of the near and Middle East, and in particular on the territory of the Anatolian plate, I was given to read the work of L. M. Tabatadze (Nuuu! Provincial! However, as I) "CRITICAL CRITERIA COAL AND PETROLEUM formation". Tbilisi. 1982. I compared with him, ubivshim "stake" in the theory of organic origin of hydrocarbon deposits in terms of logic and Geology, to say ...and nothing. NOTHING!!!. Except for amendments that do not change the logic of the Author, after adding geological information. He has a very subtle moments... But! We now not about it. Read "the Lord organici" and simply supporters of the inorganic origin of oil. Acitivites..., not take heart and Soul and Mind and might, "and and ye shall find" (See, please files. As you know: "Manuscripts do not burn!").
About "immersion oil source rocks to the stage of conversion of their content into the field Giants such Romashkinskoye" - Nonsense!. Retrospective analysis of neotectonics of the South-Eastern part of the Volga-Kama ANTECLISE held by me (from Quaternary time period has been found in the Devonian tectono-magmatic activation, suggests that she is ANTECLISE, the more deeply, and has not been touched (except in its Eastern part – in the pre-Ural trough. It Is A Fact!), and in the axial zone it permanent experienced during 360-370 million years of sustained uplift(!), what happens when our very (!!!!) short term life.
This conversation, unfortunately, endless. HEAR – HEAR!
But opponents need it!!! Otherwise we "wallow" in the dogmas of his followers. After all, Galileo was released from anathema only in the end of XX century! "...hesitated a bit the Vatican. And we to them the Pope "gave". From "our", from the poles,... of the Slavs". (V. S. Vysotsky).
Nothing New in my UCEM...and not say. "But to know and the madness and folly, I learned that this is the empty longing, For in much wisdom is much grief, And multiplying the knowledge increaseth sorrow. (Ecclesiastes, The Bible.).
But not everything ...and sad... All come to mind. Ie – in-mind – that is to say, "the logic of events"... If it (the Mind – Logic) Esme in the minds of "organists". "Gentlemen organici" try you "atimia" rocks accumulated by organisms: (a) jaspilite – iron or quartz, of course, not excluded for jaspilite the presence of commercial hydrocarbon deposits of rock crystal; the Cretaceous deposits of calcium; coal deposits of gas, not to mention nefteobrazuyuschie hydrocarbons?!!! How do you "do"?. Or any "mechanism for the removal of" will you offer?..And "lift"? Huh? Guess the third time? M. b., postconsultation Deformation? Maybe. But you only get iron ore, quartz, calcite. And in any case not promyshlenniye field. Please, "war" - supporters of the organic origin of oil, gas, Yes, at least, bitumen give me faith in the metaphysical idea of the formation of hydrocarbon fields.
From "protesters" about the deep origin of hydrocarbon deposits I understand Valery Karpov and Boris Bachurin. Yes! Dialogues need! And then "zabrodzie"! But we now not about it! As the saying goes: "Nothing personal... Just Business...". Yes! Scientists, and especially the scientists ESMI ... ordinary people..., and nice ( M. b., always?) Nitsche "them... human and not alien". They not only spoiled only "housing problem", but, basically, the question of financing of scientific developments. It is here that "the Dog ...and buried". Wrestling, m b., and bloody, is not for ideas, but simply: "money", "saleski" and how they don't name it, even if it was for "fun"... And it's endless!!! Right now very few people from SalesTerritory care scientific developments. Their "care" competent ("after") back, and in time written off "funny money." Down! And we all live: "all - in "ant". No Schaub, "to stand "side," and "do not stand in "entomopathogenic" all". But! I, as a geologist – "the sovereign man" "Power of shame!!!". "So live, Ice punching his head. We bottom. And someone from the top, towards... a crowbar!" (From reflections Michal Mikhalych Zhvanetsky).
All Prosperity!"
Copyright text format, see the attached file (the forum administrator). Yes, of course, that the formation of carbon in the KOMOS and on earth - and a Giant , unsolvable problem! But to work on this issue is necessary. I hope "lost in translation" won't bother us. Good luck in business and in Life!
Suresh Bansal (India):
some language barriers ,please .
In very much brief we all followers of abiogenic theory should challenge the kerogen and bitumen . we should challenge how sedimentary source rocks has been formed with the involvement of abiotic hydrocarbon bearing sludge ( once huge present on the surface of the earth in past history of the earth ) or without this abiotic sludge .
According to me sedimentary rocks that has been formed without any involvement of abiotic sludge are DRY only and this happening in more than 90 % organic rich sedimentary rocks . we are not getting even single drop of oil there . so abiotic sources are major contributor in global commercial hydrocarbons also .
in second face we can discuss how this abiotic hydrocarbon bearing sludge has reached on the surface of the earth in past history . how light hydrocarbons has been evaporated leaving behind this abiotic sludge . how ancient bio mass has been mixed in it . how this burial process formed etc .
Зинатов Хайдар Галимович:
--- Цитата: Suresh Bansal (India) от Августа 19, 2015, 03:10:46 pm ---some language barriers ,please .
In very much brief we all followers of abiogenic theory should challenge the kerogen and bitumen . we should challenge how sedimentary source rocks has been formed with the involvement of abiotic hydrocarbon bearing sludge ( once huge present on the surface of the earth in past history of the earth ) or without this abiotic sludge .
According to me sedimentary rocks that has been formed without any involvement of abiotic sludge are DRY only and this happening in more than 90 % organic rich sedimentary rocks . we are not getting even single drop of oil there . so abiotic sources are major contributor in global commercial hydrocarbons also .
in second face we can discuss how this abiotic hydrocarbon bearing sludge has reached on the surface of the earth in past history . how light hydrocarbons has been evaporated leaving behind this abiotic sludge . how ancient bio mass has been mixed in it . how this burial process formed etc .
--- Конец цитаты ---
Dear Suresh Bansal, our understanding of the formation of deposits of kerogen, gas, oil and bitumen are apparently very close. It is possible that many forum participants as different as can share Your point of view. And yet again: the formation in many regions of the Earth postreplicative lakes of bitumen and Pliocene-Quaternary deposits of bitumen, contemporary manifestations of oil sources on the earth's surface indicates the very young the inflow of hydrocarbons, which has globine education, in the top layers of the earth's crust. And, of course, that deep inflow of hydrocarbons on Earth has always been going on. Apparently since the beginning of the Phanerozoic. And this process fueled the development of the hydrocarbon life that prevails on Earth in its various forms, from the simplest organisms - blue-green algae, through a rich vegetation development not continents in the Carboniferous and flourishing of all kinds of mollusks in the Cretaceous period and up to mammal - to-homenidou. All-participates - carbon! I think that the influence of the Cosmos on the development of life on Earth is also evident. Naturally, in the distant past might occur in the formation of deposits of gas, oil and bitumen, if there were good collector and tires. This is evident in the territory of the state of California in the United States. There are some oil deposits have an age of about 100,000 years. However, I think that, after many of my predecessors, one of the last powerful emissions of hydrocarbons originated from the depths of the Earth, namely, in Pliocene-Quaternary time. This process, ironically coincided with the dominance among homenidou CRO-magnons and, ultimately, Homa-sapience. And this process, very young at the time of formation of deposits of gas, oil and bitumen, was dedicated... to the invention of the people of internal combustion engines. It is possible that I am wrong (?). But in this paradox there is the "logic of events". No, it's not my "superstition". Most likely this view - my confusion (?). A lot of puzzles. And solutions need new facts. I wish you Health and good Luck!
Suresh Bansal (India):
Dear Zeenat Haidar Galimovich, thanks wishing for my good health ,unfortunately it is not . yes I agreed with you that our understanding about abiotic origin of hydrocarbons are very close . we all agreed deep origin of hydrocarbons but little change only that I do not want to ignore the expulsion of hydrocarbons from sedimentary source rocks, but want to suggest these sedimentary source rocks essentially has been formed with the hydrocarbon bearing flux ( once huge present on the surface of the earth and has been buried along with the ancient bio mass) to confuse us . sedimentary rocks thathas been formed without any involvement of this abiotic hydrocarbon bearing flux are DRY only . Otherwise both we have similar theory . ancient bio mass has not played any vital role to form the Global hydrocarbons . I also wish a good health for you and all members of this forum .
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